Today I’m delighted to be joined by author Barbara Kent Lawrence to discuss her deeply moving and extensively researched book, Both Sides of the Pond: My Family’s War, 1933–1946. Blending family history with the wider story of the Second World War, the book follows the lives of her mother, Barbara Greene, and her uncle Kent as they navigate war, loss, survival, and identity across Britain and America. Through photographs, documents, and years of painstaking research, Barbara brings personal history vividly to life while reminding us of the human stories behind world events. It’s a pleasure to welcome her today.
But first, let us take a look at the book!
In January of 1939 when Barbara Greene, a beautiful young British actress, met Joe Kennedy, Jr., son of the American Ambassador, she could not have expected that their relationship would lead to her emigrating to the United States and learning to pilot a plane. Neither could her brother, Kent, have foreseen his bitter retreat from Dunkirk when he left England in January 1940 to fight in France, or his subsequent service on the frontlines in Cornwall, North Africa, Sicily, and Burma.
In this intensively researched war story of the author’s family, we also hear the stories of other ordinary people who survived extraordinary circumstances. Richly illustrated with photographs and documents, “Both Sides of the Pond, My Family’s War: 1933 – 1946” is a captivating book.
Both Sides of the Pond: My Family’s War, 1933–1946 tells a deeply personal story set against the backdrop of the Second World War. What first inspired you to research and write about your family’s wartime experiences?
In 2007, I found the photograph of my mother and uncle that now graces the cover of this book. As I stared at their faces, I wondered if they had any idea of what lay ahead. For the first time, I began to think about who they were before I was born. I had taught research methods and written a dissertation, articles, and books of non-fiction, which gave me the confidence I could research and write this story as well. Little did I know, however, that it would take me eighteen years and that I would re-write the book several times—finally as a novel.
I must add that my mother died when I was thirty, and I did not have a warm relationship with her. Part of my wanting to learn about her life was that I needed to understand why that was true and who she was. I knew my uncle only as a wraithlike alcoholic who needed my stepfather’s old suits, and I wanted to know him better, too, primarily because my mother and grandmother had cared so much about him.
The book follows the lives of your mother, Barbara Greene, and your uncle, Kent, as they face very different wartime paths. What drew you most strongly to their stories?
I knew so little from family stories. Before the war, my mother had been a successful young actress, though I hadn’t appreciated how successful. I knew that Ambassador Kennedy had helped her emigrate to the US, but not how much. I knew that my uncle had been rescued from Dunkirk, but nothing else about his service in the war. I knew their stories were interesting, but not how interesting. I knew I needed to make peace with my mother and that understanding her life better was the only way I could do that.
Your mother’s life as a young British actress whose dreams were interrupted by war is particularly compelling. How did her experiences shape the emotional heart of the book?
Part of the reason her story may be more compelling than my uncle’s is simply that there was more material to draw from and that I knew her better than I knew my uncle. I did discover a great deal about him by interviewing people who had served with him, and the British Ministry of Defence sent me an astounding amount of information, but I had lived with my mother and was able to unearth more about her because she had been a public figure.
Your uncle Kent’s journey—from the retreat from Dunkirk to service in multiple theatres of war—provides a vivid look at a soldier’s experience. What did you learn about him through your research that surprised you the most?
I saw my uncle only a few times—first when I visited England in 1954, and then the few times he visited us in the United States. I knew him only as a chain-smoking alcoholic with a mentally ill wife my grandmother blamed for what she perceived as his failings. What surprised me most was that the people in the military who helped me with the research said my uncle must have been a highly respected officer to have received the assignments he did and to have achieved the rank of Major. Even my British cousins, who knew him far better than I did, were astounded to learn he had served so well. I believe that had he served more recently he would have been diagnosed with PTSD.
The narrative moves between the home front and the battlefront on both sides of the Atlantic. Why was it important for you to show the war from these different perspectives?
I remember learning that Iroquois women had the power to approve or veto a war because the men realised that women had more to lose than men, who could lose only their lives. That made me think about what women and children had to lose in World War II, and about the ways they all served. It was also interesting, if not surprising, that the war records for women were sketchy to non-existent, and I wanted to tell their story because I felt their efforts to sustain the home front and contribute to the war were as important as the fighting.
The book is described as intensively researched and illustrated with photographs and documents. How did these materials help you bring the story to life for readers?
The photographs helped me understand what I needed to find, and the documents helped me uncover the story. For example, I searched for about six months to prove my mother had travelled to the United States as an escort for fifteen refugee children, which was the story she and my grandmother always told about her emigration. But there was no evidence she had done that. I turned to Roy V. Martin, an expert mariner, who said, “You need to search for her on Ancestry.com. She could have travelled only by ship, and they have the records.” I spent weeks searching, using her name and birthdate, and found nothing. Roy suggested just entering her name, and after scrolling through pages of documents I found she had sailed aboard the Warwick Castle, that she travelled in first class (called Cabin Class) with three children and two of their grandmothers, and that she had been sponsored by Ambassador and Mrs Joseph Kennedy. Without those documents, I would not have been able to tell the story.
I think the documents and photographs are essential to telling the story because they confirm facts. The documents and photographs are so important that I turned down a publisher because her house would not include them in the book. Photographs and documents also help readers know the people in the book and engage with them and add visual interest.
This story is based on your own family history. How did you balance historical accuracy with storytelling to create a compelling narrative?
It took me eighteen years and writing three very different drafts, but I achieved a balance I can live with. Some in my family aren’t entirely accepting that I created dialogue, but I realised (after writing the second draft as non-fiction) that because I didn’t have enough original material, such as diaries and letters, I couldn’t tell the story without such dialogue. Fortunately, I had written two novels during the times I stumbled around researching Both Sides of the Pond, so I felt confident I could create the ligaments of diary entries and letters.
I did have examples of speech, whether direct, as with articles quoting my mother (if perhaps inaccurately) and a few letters, or indirect, as with a short talk I found attributed to the man who was serving in the same role and during the same time as my uncle when he was a head of the RASC training base. I can’t prove it, but I think that man must have been my uncle Kent.
Were there any particularly emotional moments during your research or writing when the past felt especially real to you?
Yes. Two spring to mind—one of which I’ve touched on. I spent weeks trying to figure out how Barbara Greene got to the United States. It seemed almost certain that it was by ship, and I knew that on Ancestry.com I could find records of ships travelling between the UK and US. But I wasn’t sure what name she had used. Barbara Mary Kent Green, her full birth name? Barbara Greene, her stage name? And I wasn’t sure what address she had used, though I knew she had been born in Oxford, Wiltshire, but I knew her birthdate: 28 March 1919. I entered every variation I could think of for her name and address but always used her birthdate. Frustrated after weeks of searching, I again asked Roy Martin what to do. “She had to have come by ship. Just put in her name, Barbara Green or Greene, and leave everything else out,” he counselled. I did. After scrolling through pages and pages of records, there she was: Barbara Greene, Warwick Castle, January 24, 1940. Age: 10. Someone had mis-entered her birthdate! When I saw the entry, I cried with relief. So much was unveiled in that one record—the List or Manifest of Alliance Passengers For The United States—and in the entry reading, “sponsored by Ambassador and Mrs. Kennedy.”
The second time I felt emotion overcoming me was when I found letters from my mother and grandmother to Ambassador Kennedy in a box of records at The John F. Kennedy Library. There was also a note in the file marked “C”, (for Confidential) indicating that there was a letter from my mother to Ambassador Kennedy that I could not see. I asked Librarian Stephen Plotkin, who had helped me many times, if it was possible I could see the letter. I held my breath as he briefly considered my request, and then he said, “Yes, as it’s from your mother.” When he brought me the letter, I recognised her handwriting and read, “…I am in love with Joe and I sincerely hope I always will be…” The tone of the letter then changed, and she seemed to acknowledge that she knew they would never marry. It was brave, honest, and heart-breaking, and again I wept.
Many people think of the Second World War in broad historical terms, but your book focuses on individual lives. Why do you think personal stories are so important in understanding history?
Historian David McCullough reminds us “There’s no secret to making history come alive. Barbara Tuchman said it perfectly: ‘Tell stories.’”
I agree. In teaching history as a series of dates and events we make it boring by bypassing the people who made that history—and I think everyone who has lived before us has helped make history. The unknown stories are as important, at least collectively, as the histories of famous people who cut larger swathes. The personal stories may also be easier for us to learn from because they are not wrapped in ermine and pearls and we can understand and feel them more easily.
What do you hope modern readers—especially younger generations—will take away from the experiences of your family during those turbulent years?
I hope people younger than I will appreciate that nothing is inevitable. The United Kingdom came perilously close to losing the war. Democracy—or any way of life—is fragile, and change can occur slowly until it overpowers. We are all frogs in pots tolerating increased heat until, if we don’t jump, we boil.
When I started this book in 2007, I had no idea it would take so long to complete, and no premonition it would emerge into a world torn by war and uncontrolled attacks on truth, law, constitutions, international agreements, and democracy itself. These are again perilous times. Appeasement of bullies doesn’t work, but working together with respect and understanding can. We need to try it again.
Barbara, thank you so much for sharing the remarkable story behind Both Sides of the Pond. Your reflections on family, memory, war, and historical truth offer readers not only a compelling narrative, but also an important reminder of how fragile democracy and ordinary lives can be in times of conflict. It has been a privilege speaking with you about the years of research and emotion that shaped this book, and I’m sure readers will come away with a deeper understanding of both the Second World War and the personal stories that history so often overlooks.
This book is available in ebook, paperback & hardback. Find your copy HERE.
Barbara Kent Lawrence
Dr. Lawrence is the author of many articles and nine books, including an award-winning dissertation about the influence of culture on aspirations in Maine. Her new book, Both Sides of the Pond, My Family’s War: 1933 - 1945, is available in book stores and on Amazon.
A former professor, she has taught courses in anthropology and sociology, research, and writing non-fiction and memoir. Lawrence grew up in New York City and Washington D.C., then earned a BA in anthropology from Bennington College, an MA in sociology from New York University, and an Ed.D. in Administration, Policy and Planning from Boston University.
In addition to teaching, Lawrence has worked for the Department of Social Services and the Housing Development Administration in New York, directed a small museum in Maine, co-run a brokerage and construction company, consulted for the Rural School and Community Trust and KnowledgeWorks, and started four non-profit organizations supporting the environment and students.
When not working she loves to garden, knit, and go for walks, pastimes she learned from her British mother. She lives in Maine and is working on the third novel in her Islands series.
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Take Care,
Mary Anne xxx